This site is longer open for comments. It remains
simply as an archive of the discussions that took place
in the hopes that it might still help someone find
religious freedom.
I’ve been struggling—to find topics for this blog, to maintain my interest in all things Armstrong, to find time to care.
Truth be told, to care.
Jared said it best in a recent comment:
[A] moribund XCG is [not] entirely a bad thing either. After all, there’s only so much one can say about Armstrongism before you’ve said it all. (Source)
I don’t feel like I’ve said it all—there are thousands of words that could still be written about the phenomenon of Herbert Armstrong and the sect he formed. Yet, I really no longer have the interest or time to write anymore words about it.
I feel like Chicken Little, for our common XCG sky will continually fall. David Pack will talk about his web site statistics until the day he dies. Rod Meredith will provide critics with still more reasons to call him Spanky until the day he dies. Those in the upper echelons of the dwindling WCG will continue to talk about their amazing transformation until the day they die.
But I will not be commenting on them at that point, and I certainly won’t be commenting on them when I die.
About six months ago, I started preparing a final post, but I kept putting it off. I thought, “Maybe I’ll just write a little here, a little there,” for a while. Several have noticed and commented on this, and I have remained silent as to the cause of this dip in output.
My initial draft of this post might provide clarification:
Certain things in life force us to see things in a different perspective. Births, deaths, marriages, divorces, conversions—these are the kinds of things that make us stop and reflect on where we are, what we are, and most importantly, what we’re doing with the short time we have on Earth.
We have twenty-four hours in a day. We work at least eight of them; we sleep six to eight of them; we wash, shave, cook, eat, clean, drive, exercise and a million other forms of maintenance for another three or four a day. That leaves us with precious few hours a day for ourselves.
What do we do with that time?
Until recently, I spent time looking at, analyzing, and even mocking the beliefs and actions of a group of people I no longer have anything in common with.
Recent developments in my life now make that a less-than-ideal way to spend my free time.
The “certain event” I was referring to was the birth of my first child.
Since then, I’ve been of thinking about what I want my daughter to know about my own religious past. Truth is, I want her to know as little as possible. Because of shame? Embarrassment? Certainly not. I don’t want her to know for the simple reason that it no longer impacts my life. I can’t see much positive coming from me ever going into any detail with her about what I used to believe, about what her grandparents used to believe, about the fact that a true handful of people in the world still believe it. I don’t believe it, and that’s that.
And so, to quote one of my favorite authors:
“The time has come,” the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
Of cabbages—and kings—
And why the sea is boiling hot—
And whether pigs have wings.”
To talk of many things—but not the XCG. And not here. Some might be wondering whether this signals the end of my presence on the XCG scene. It does. In fact, I doubt very much that I will even “lurk.” As a famous, oft-misquoted teacher once said, “It is finished.”
I appreciate all the support I’ve received during this little two-and-a-half-year adventure. I thank all the fellow contributors who, throughout these last nearly thirty months, have helped to make the discussion here a little more balanced. I am grateful to all you regulars. You really kept the site going.
Most of all, I’m heartened by some of the comments of the past, folks telling me that I have helped them in some way. I appreciate you sharing those thoughts, for it gave me a certain joy that I will truly never forget.
But the time has come.
Best wishes to all, ill wishes to none, and I leave with the hope that if we ever meet again, we’ll have so much more to talk about than the XCG.
Gerry Flurry likes to talk about how the Protestant daughters of the Whore of Babylon are going to be rejoining the Whore any day. They’re getting out their eyeliner and fishnet stockings, so to speak.
And then he writes about how the Pope has been offending people left and right lately:
London’s Telegraph newspaper reported, “Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism are either defective or are not full churches of Jesus Christ, the Vatican has reaffirmed. A 16-page document released by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict xvi once headed, described Orthodox churches as true churches, but said they are suffering from a ‘wound’ since they do not recognize the primacy [state of being first!] of the pope.
“The document, approved by Pope Benedict, went on to say the ‘wound is still more profound’ in Protestant denominations. ‘Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress … it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of “church” could possibly be attributed to them,’ it said. …
“While there was nothing doctrinally new in the document, it nevertheless prompted swift criticism from Protestants, Lutherans and other Christian denominations” (July 11). But the criticism was anemic compared to the pope’s scathing condemnation of their religion. The reason Protestants revolted in the first place was the corruption inside the Roman Catholic Church.
The pope can’t see how the Protestants could even have the title of “church” attributed to them! Quite an outrage coming from a church with such a bloody history.
This document criticized Orthodox churches almost as severely.
Other religions have a history of being afraid to criticize a powerful Catholic Church. And that situation is only going to get worse, as the Catholic Church rapidly grows in power and influence. (Source)
What, the RCC is going to offend everyone, and then they’re going to go running back to the Whore’s embrace?
Just like most things in Armstrongism, it makes no sense.
I just noticed—for all of David Pack’s bragging about his little web site and how supposedly cutting edge it is, it doesn’t even have an RSS feed that I can find…
David Pack is an Apostle. The Apostle. We all know that, and any of us who doubt it will quickly be embarrassed as his prophetic interpretations begin coming to pass.
In the meantime, we have more proof that Mr. Pack is who he says he is: the increasing parallel of his life to that of The Great Apostle, Herbert Armstrong.
Herbert Armstrong’s wife died before The Work was complete. And now, sadly, Mr. Pack’s wife has died.
The only differences are:
The cause of death. Mrs. Armstrong died of a bowel blockage, while Mrs. Pack died of cancer. However, in his sermon “At the Red Sea” (Download), Mr. Pack speculates that it was indeed cancer that caused the bowel blockage. This would only make sense, as God is the God of Dualism.
The time remaining until the end of the age. Mr. Armstrong worked another 19 years before he died, and The Work was still not complete. Mr. Pack will certainly not be toiling away at The Work for another 19 years. Jesus Christ will have returned long before then. In fact, Mr. Pack has recently informed us that time remaining may now definitely be counted in “single digits.”
Other than those two differences, most things line up perfectly.
The ironic thing is that the parallel is so perfect that Mrs. Armstrong said on her deathbed virtually the same thing would say almost forty years later.
Mr. Pack explains:
I am tempted to say that this statement says it all, but there is one other brief statement I would like to offer because it was part of my wife’s very last conversation with me, held one week ago tonight (Wednesday) as I write. She barely had enough breath to utter the words. It contains perhaps the most inspiring for you, but for reasons you will see, the most difficult of words for me to hear:
“Tell the men in the office and the Church to always pray to keep their eyes on the Work. That is the most important thing for the rest of the age. Don’t take your eyes off the Work. I am just sorry I could not stay and do it with you.” (Source)
I know there will be dissidents out there who doubt this, who will suggest that Mrs. Pack, knowing what Mrs. Armstrong said, deliberately tried to create a parallel. I know that there are those out there who will even go so far as to suggest that Mr. Pack made the whole episode up to further legitimize his position. However, those of us who are truly converted will see this kind of thinking to be the Satanic attack on the Truth that it is, and will put it out of our minds permanently.
Death is the equalizer—so the cliche goes, but I wonder if it’s true in the COGs. Death can often overcome family estrangement when family members realize that whatever drove them apart is inconsequential compared to the loss of a family member.
Can this happen this week in Ohio?
When I heard about Shirley Pack’s tragic death, the person I thought of immediately was Pack’s estranged son. He is not in the any COG (to my knowledge, based on his comments at this site), and as I understand, he is not even on speaking terms with his father.
The real tragedy here would be a continued estrangement, because it would be the only part that’s complete choice.
We regret to inform you that after a long battle with cancer Mrs. Pack died peacefully in her sleep at her home in the early hours of Sunday morning. Her physical condition began to deteriorate rapidly on Tuesday and this continued through the end of the week.
How difficult would it be to convince people that you’re a minister of the Holy Spirit with special gifts? Is it just a matter of acting? Could I, as I mentioned with writing about Rod Parsley, do it? And of so, how does he does it?
It turns out to be fairly simple, as British skeptic Derren Brown shows:
How difficult would it be to take someone who already believes in Reiki healing (Wikipedia) and incorporate a truly functional belief in the efficacy of voodoo? Simple: Voodoo
How difficult would it be to walk up to someone on the street and within a space of fifteen seconds, so thorough psychologically discombobulate said strange that he will unquestionably give you his watch, cell phone, and house keys without thinking twice? Easy, if you know how to do the Russian scam.
Just noticed—the splinters section of the RCG’s page begins:
If you are learning the Bible’s true doctrines for the first time, this section is NOT the place to begin. You cannot possibly understand what is written here.
This insult to the intelligence of the average prospective member is just the first of many times David Pack will certainly intentionally try to make the PM feel intellectually inferior.
the more popular Petra becomes, unless world events change in particular ways (which they may) it may be that the Philadelphian remnant will simply be near, not in, Petra.
It’s interesting that Petra is still an option—“near Petra”, granted, but it’s still in the picture.
Petra is such a part of the COG culture that it would be all but impossible to think differently.
Since Bob Thiel began using WordPress for his site, I think it’s time we officially recognize it for what it is: a blog.
Mr. Thiel will probably chafe under the description. In fact, he once told me that because his site is more of a “a news, research, and commentary site,” it’s not a blog, which is “mainly observations and opinions.”
I think in that case, “blog” is the perfect label for each and every COG site out there. Sure, some sites (like Mr. Thiel’s) like to portray themselves as more than simply opinion and commentary, but they really amount to little more.
Yet “blogs” are not merely about observations and opinions. Why would Google have a blog, then? There, Google announces new products (for example, Google Desktop is now available for Linux) and discusses technical issues of existing products. If that’s not news and information, I really don’t know what is.
What does “blog” mean these days, then? I’d say it’s becoming synonymous with “frequently updated website” and nothing more. Originally, blogs were just lists of links – web logs, places people had found interesting on the internet. Then people started using them for commentary and opinion. Now, they’re used by everyone for everything.
So, Mr. Thiel, time to face the facts: your site is a blog.
But why would that be such an issue for him? I suspect that “blog” implies for Mr. Thiel something informal, and we all know what informal means in COG speak—it’s the opposite of authoritative.
“Blog” in the COG world is turning into something like the term “dissident.” It destroys any sense of legitimacy. It is, after all, just opinion. It’s an individual trying to have a “voice”, and Mr. Pack kindly pointed out to us the sinful nature of such an unnatural, ungodly desire.
This site, however, is a blog. I have no issues with the term “blog”, though I don’t really like the way the word comes off the tongue—sounds a little more like a geographical feature than a form of technology.
A reader pointed out that Bob Thiel is now using WordPress for one section of COGWriter.
I suggested to Bob that he make such a move some time ago. I’m glad to see he finally did.
One of the most useful features of such software is the ability to give readers a chance to participate in the process by sharing their own views. It even allows comment moderation, something all COG blogs should have.
I’m sure Mr. Thiel will be turning on the comment feature any day now…
Will the COGs be the most hated organizations on the face of the earth? Will the “Devil’s best army” chase one—or all—of the XCGs to the Place of Safety? What would the first signs of such an attack look like?
How, for example, would the current Vatican initiate something? Is there something it could do now before it gains military power and becomes the Beast?
How about a DoS attack? The Trumpet already foresees it:
In future, the battlefield for warfare will be the server room. Engagements on land and sea, even in air and space will rely heavily upon who wins the battle on the front lines of computer code. For this reason, Beijing wants electronic superiority, especially over the United States.
So why has no one attacked any of the COG sites? Surely, if there had been such an attack on, say, the RCG’s site, we would hear about it endlessly. Booklets would be written about it. Just What Do You Mean, “Denial of Service?” Sermons would be given.
Via my trusty RSS feed ‘gator loading “Shadows of the WCG’s” latest posts, I discovered theworldtomorrowbroadcast.com.
Another HWA site—fine and good.
There’s a survey, “Where Did You Hear About this Site?” At first, I thought it was one of those out-of-the-box surveys, because it lists CNN, FOX News, TV Land. I thought, “Surely whoever is behind this doesn’t have the money to advertise on those channels?!?”
Then I saw the final option…
It’s somewhat immature to point out grammatical and orthographic errors, but given HWA’s obsession about “quality,” it’s just too ironic to pass up.
(Here is another article that originally appeared on my blog Post-WCG Life and Theology and with a pleasant response by the focus of the article by none other than Professor Francis Beckworth of the Texas-based Baylor University. Enjoy!)
I found an another interesting article on Christianity Today.com on a Question and Answer interview with Baylor University Professor Francis Beckwith’s rejoining the Catholic faith from Protestantism. As a result resigned from the Evangelical Theological Society. Gavin Rumney has mentioned about Professor Beckwith’s decision earlier this month on his blog. As a teen growing up in the WCG, I believed with my whole heart that the Roman Catholic Church was Babylon as the church taught it. Thankfully in my mid 20’s in 1994 when the late Joe Sr. said that there “were other Christians in other churches” I sort of mellowed out but was glad to hear that Catholics and Protestants were to take part in the “first ressurection”, I was no longer lonely—-while the ultra-conservatives in WCG cringed bitterly in being deceitful passive aggressive mode (smile outside, say nothing and whine and curse inside) against that concept. They (the Armstrongites in their vanity) had to be the elite force! I learned to respect and love Pope John Paul II as I entered my current decade of life (the 30’s), finally learning that he was one of the “good guys” (hey there is a book about Reagan, Thatcher and John Paul II’s effort to thwart the Soviet empire). Another side note, I was baptized as a Roman Catholic before my mom joined the WCG in 1971 and probably Jared Olar and Darren Carrey would love to say to me, “Felix, it’s time to come home to Mother Church.” Well, not quite. As I said, I admire Pope John Paul II and I respect the Catholic’s belief in faith and works go together (whereas evangelical Protestants haven’t grown up on this issue enough in my opinion, they like to scream we are NOT saved by works—-yea,yea I know but in James said that faith without works is dead! So deal with it!) but I think Jared would consider me way too much of a “cafeteria Catholic” to join anyway. Still consider myself a post evangelical who is interested in some of what Eastern Orthodoxy has to say on original sin, their Christus Victor view on the Atonement (as opposed to the western view of penal subsititution), their view of heaven and hell among other things. I am also stil interested in the Hebriac roots of Christianity (but don’t expect me to wear a tzit-tzit and dress up like a Hasidic). Those who are in the splinters (and those who have a malicious anti-Catholic bias) would do well to understand why people like Professor Beckwith, Jared and Darren decide to become Catholics. Trust me they are not evil people but rather pretty God-fearing. Open your mind and see their positions, you don’t have to submit it—-just understand it. You will become a better person for it.
Let’s have some fun with the new and improved Google Analytics, which can tell how many visitors from a given state, or even city, are coming to this site.
Before we go any further, understand that I am not making any sort of claims about the accuracy of this. I have reason to doubt that it is 100% accurate. Still, it’s fun…
Which XCG visits the site the most:
By far, the group most interested in this site is the LCG. From Charlotte we have 279 visitors
Next up is good old Wadsworth, with 32 visitors. Pack is obviously less worried because he’s an apostle, as opposed to lowly Rod Merideth.
This site’s still clearly on the WCG’s radar, with 24 visitors
And then we have the PCG:
We don’t even seem to have a single visitor from Edmund. Which can only mean one thing: they’re using proxy servers to hide their cyber tracks.
Brethren, this work is really starting to catch the eye of the various splinters and slivers. Before you know it, the devil’s greatest army will be chasing the web host toward a white horse which will then…
Gizoogle is, according to its own description, a site “Fo all you beotches who wanna find shiznit.” You run pages through and it translates.
Here’s something from XCG through Gizoogle—the inset on the latest post:
In case you’re straight trippin’ you can’t use tha Way Back Machine ta look at old issues of AW. Shucks…
What about running other XCGs through it?
Here’s the RCG’s blurb for its America and Britain in Bible Prophecy.
All nations is trippin’ toward tha grand smash conclusion ta occur in tha “last days.” Humanity plunges ahead—blind, pleasure-crazed n detached frizzay important world events occurr’n daily.
The PCG’s recent article on Israel doesn’t come out so well:
Despite mass public protests, allegations of ballin’ fizzle corruption ta failure ta defend tha country in war, n calls fizzle high-level politizzles witin his own party ta resign, Israeli Prime Minista Ehud Olmert not only is refus’n ta stizzay dizzown, but survived no-confidence votes in Israel’s parliament earlia this month.
Here’s Mr. Thiel:
The USA used ta dominate auto straight trippin’ but its influence has decreazed mizzuch in tha past 40 years, n especially tha last ten straight from long beach nigga.
And Gavin comes out straight raw (as my at-risk kids would say):
Ancient Israel was a sippin’ society. If you wanted ta buy sum-m sum-m you wizzle expected ta haggle fo gettin yo pimp on. The oaths in Matthew 5 is those of merchants pimpin’ ta convince a customa of tha value of they goods. The context isn’t `bout law but trad’n� so i can get mah pimp on.
But who can beat the Old Man himself? Here’s 1975 in Prophecy
YOUR own future is laid bare, now, in prophecy! The curtain of tha future is drawn back.
Prophecies that wizzle closed n sealed tizzight now stand REVEALED. This mystify’n, neglected third of tha Bible now becomes plain. Mysteries of Gizzy drug deala before understood, now become crystal-clear. God’s own tizzy fo` this reveal’n has come . Nigga get shut up or get wet up. The KEYS that locked tha future have bizzle found.
But wizzle is actually goingta happen is not what tha world expects!
Today this world is chang’n – fizzay . Wussup to all my niggaz in the house! Unprecedented events is doggy stylin’ tha world already. Yet what we hizzle seen is mild compared ta tha catastrizzles happen’n tizzle wizzle rizzy this world in tha near future in tha dogg pound!
I recently reported that the RCG no longer has that “download” counter, to which someone responded via email:
On May 5th you reported that the RCG no longer publishes its download counter. That is not accurate. It’s May 9th, and you can still find it on their website. Perhaps you missed it because you took a quick fly by.
Odd, I thought—maybe I missed it. I’ve now scoured the main website (www.thercg.org/home.html) and I still cannot see it. That’s because it’s on the news.html page.
Wasn’t it on the main page before? That’s what I was referring to.
Anyway, the correspondent continues,
Your report certainly pleased Bob Thiel, however. He grabbed it like a kid who finds a piece of candy on the sidewalk. He quoted you without bothering to check. The LCG is quietly worried about the RCG, you see.
The RCG website no longer has that ridiculous “download counter.” Wonder why?
The “download counter” was somewhat strange as it did not count actual downloads (it was some type of estimate that was often adjusted). There have been some problems accessing RCG’s site lately and perhaps that “download counter” was a factor. Anyway removing it seems to be a good idea.
In case you’re wondering, you can’t use the Way Back Machine to look at old issues of AW. Shucks…
You can, though, see an old version of the LCG’s site if you’re interested Maybe Thiel checked only the main page like I did. Maybe he didn’t check anything.
Which was it Mr. Thiel?
Oh, that’s right—you don’t leave comments…
Nonetheless, I am fairly certain that the download counter used to be on the front page of the RCG’s little house of horrors.
I went to the Way Back Machine’s archive for RCG pages and it’s not on the front page there.
David Pack has posted a saddening letter on his sect’s web site. Long story tragically short, David Pack’s wife, Shirley, has cancer—uterine cancer that has spread to her lungs.
A lot could be said about the letter itself, available here, but I’ll take it at face value: a request for prayers. I pass that along to believers here.
A reader who goes by the name “eddby” made the following comment:
A couple of years back, I knew there was something amiss when I asked a LCG elder why don’t they show the old HWA tommorow’s world tapes once and awhile during services. I was told without any further explanation that they just don’t do it. I recently saw an old HWA tape and now I can understand why. Rod wags his head just as HWA did when a point was being made. Rod also uses long vowels like in “aaaaaaaaall the world”. The same as HWA. No matter! (Source)
This, I suppose, is only natural. As adolescents, we probably all tried to imitate those we admire. I once fancied myself a poet, and it’s fairly obvious, flipping through my old work (if I still had it, that is), when I fell under Walt Whitman’s spell. But we outgrow that. My Whitman phase was in high school. By the time I was taking creative writing in college, I realized that all good writers find and/or create their own voice.
There is something inherently adolescent in much of xCG culture and theology. A prime example: the ability we’d all have as gods to thumb our noses at those who’d mocked us when we were mere mortals and get even.
So it’s not surprising that so many ministers tried to imitate Armstrong. Wasn’t that, after all, the purpose of Ambassador College, to turn out little HWA clones? Wasn’t that the motivation behind the Spokesman’s Club manual?
Yet so many of the ministers never outgrew it. In fact, it continues, in a modified form, to this day.
The single best example is James Turck, of the RCG. Turck tries desperately to imitate David Pack’s speaking style: his pronunciation, phrasing, when to take an audible breath.
It’s only to be expected. All the COGs are writing about Virginia Tech.
RCG
The RCG has an obvious answer: they’re not real Christians.
And then there is the universal question in the minds and on the lips of most: “Why did God allow this tragedy?”
The religions of men cannot correctly answer this. At best they can only offer a mixture of truth and error. While religious opinions will vary, most will utter meaningless words of “healing,” which serve as nothing more than spiritual junk food—filler disguised as substance; tastes sweet, but leaves you wanting for something more substantial. They will assert that God “acts in mysterious ways,” implying that blind faith is expected from His followers. [...]
Millions claim to serve Him, but who are Christ’s friends? “You are My friends, if you do whatsoever I command you” (Source)
That circle of protection again, I guess.
PCG
“It’s the elders’ fault!” cries the PCG.
If we are ever to solve the problems plaguing the younger generation, we must first consider what is wrong with the older one! God says in verse 12, “They which lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths.” (Source)
Perhaps if the parents of the victims had been helping build Gerry’s fantasy (big house, big auditorium, etc), their children would have been spared.
LCG
Richard Ames calls his article, “Is There Any Hope?” What a leading question.
From Columbine to Kosovo, and from Blacksburg to Baghdad, our world is mired in violence, pain and suffering. Have you ever asked yourself, “Is There Any Hope?” God’s word gives the answer! (Source)
Hope lies in the COG Gulag that Armstrongists like to call the World Tomorrow.
UCG
The UCG is strangely silent—at least at first glance. Their updates page doesn’t mention anything.
xCG
GTA’s site is silent on the issue. Wonder why…oh, that’s right. He’s dead and Mark is just milking his dad’s rep for all it’s worth.
The mother hen is silent.
Church of the Eternal God is still just looking forward to Pentecost.
I guess it was just the big three—as in, the big three mouths—that had something to say about this.
The BBC has an article about the creationist museum in Petersburg, Kentucky.
It is, in short, a monument to the ability of man to warp the simplest things to fit preconceived notions.
On a rocky ledge, there is a pair of small theropods—young T. rexes we’re told. And near to them (“hold onto your hat,” says Ken [Ham, museum director], anticipating our disbelief) there are two human children playing by a stream.
Most geologists would say humans and dinosaurs were separated by more than 60 million years.
And those dinosaurs have very sharp teeth!
“So do bears”, says Ken. “But they eat nuts and berries! Remember, before the sin of Adam, the world was perfect. All creatures were vegetarian.” One of the dinosaurs lets out a rather contradictory roar.
Yes, this is the world of creationist. Dinosaurs have those dreadfully sharp teeth for tearing into the flesh of berries and nuts. I must admit, Brazil nuts are kind of tough to get into sometimes, but really, I think such a design indicates design by committee rather than design by an omnipotent being.
One small question: if the dinosaurs lived with humans, why isn’t there any mention of them in the Bible, particularly in the Levitical dietary laws? Not one mention. Yes—arguing form silence, but it just seems odd that there would be no mention in the Bible of certainly the oddest and, generally speaking, largest animals roaming the Garden.
But what happened to the dinosaurs? Did the Flood get them? Not quite…
Though the Bible does not mention them directly, Ken Ham thinks there is no reason to suppose that dinosaurs were not still around at the time of the flood.
Indeed, he speculates that two of each may have been taken aboard the Ark (newly hatched dinosaurs are quite small so fitting them in would not have been a problem).
That’s right—let’s just take the unbelievable account of the Ark (how did all those animals fit into such a small space?) and make it even more unbelievable.
But at last, a long-unsettling question can be answered:
And what about the animals from other continents? Did Noah sail to Australia to drop off the kangaroos?
No, the flood waters lubricated a process called runaway subduction in which the continents subsequently drifted apart at a sprint!
With that kind of “science,” we could indeed prove that the moon is made of green cheese.
When I was about eleven years old, I took an interest in cooking. My parents bought me an “international basics” cookbook. I was thrilled.
Unfortunately, many of the recipes were useless—shellfish, pork products, and other non-kosher goodies made the thought of cooking those dishes absurd.
But some of those “unclean” dishes looked so interesting to cook.
Well, I am no longer under the curse of dietary purity, and I still have the cookbook.
Spanish seafood stew.
Despite the fact that the stock is clam juice and there are tons of fresh clams in it, the soup was really not all that “fishy” at all.
(Happy Holy Week or Holy Day season everyone! This original appeared in my blog Post-WCG Life and Theology under the title, If If the United Church of God wants to live on in the 2020’s, 2030’s, 2040’s and beyond… on March 27th at lifeafterwcg.blogspot.com)
On Gavin Rumney’s Ambassador Watch blog, it is come to some kind of informal consensus that the United Church of God will live on while the PCG, RCG, David Hulme’s Church of God, and all the other insignificant splinters will finally die (good riddance!). If the United Church of God really wants to be a successful church and have countless opportunities at their finger tips, they need to listen to this:
Time to have a deeper meaning of grace. It is not merely God forgiving us in doing a sin, it is a much more complex dynamic. It is not license to sin, rather an active agent of God that cancels sin and is greater than sin. At least the Church of God (Seventh Day) unserstands this. It is time for the United Church of God, like the Christian Reformed Church believe that “the law” is used for “sanctification”, not “justification”. So if anyone thinks I am preaching antinomianism, really simply does not know what I am talking about.
Accept the triune nature of God. Read Robert M. Bowman Jr.’s book Why Should You Believe in The Trinity and James R. White’s The Forgotten Trinity. These are two men who are great scholars who spent a heck of a lot of time in their research and committed to the best of their knowledge to biblical truth. To say they are “Satan’s scholars” is just plain childishness. If you are bold and if you dare go to open your mind for once go to [Forgotten Trinity] and [Why You Should Believe in the Trinity: An Answer to Jehovah’s Witnesses]. On top that, a possible alternative to the God Family doctrine is “theosis” which the Greek Orthodox Church believes. “Children of God” will not suffice for the members. Read more about theosis at OrthodoxWiki.
Log on to goodnewsunlimited.org. I actually attend this fellowship (though it’s not really a church, but that’s another story for next time) in Toronto. It is probably high time that the leaders in the UCG study this site too. You can have a grace-based Sabbatarian denomination. Don’t let those who are overzealous in their New Covenant Theology argue with you and assert otherwise.
Keep it’s Hebraic-heritage! Let the UCG celebrate the Sabbath and the Holy Days. There is absolutely no need to change it to please anybody (like evangelicals who ignorant about them)—but here is the deal, don’t tell people that they have to give up their jobs and become seasonally or pemanantely unemployed or end up in a poverty cycle if they can’t keep it in its entirety. This nonsense that has happened and is happening in the splinters needs to stop!
If the UCG choose to be a Sabbatarian evangelical denomination, the next generation of ministers need to go to Andrews University in Michigan. Ditch this Ambassador Bible Center nonsense and get your education from some more detailed meticulous research that has been around a heck of a long time than the WCG and it’s splinters combined. Hey, Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi has written two scholary books on the Holy Days (I even have one of them about the fall feasts!). Having Andrews support your theology will bring a long way and a more reputable one. Oh yea, Andrews is just a start, how about Fuller, or even Princeton to add on a full-time minister’s study?
To officially renounce that the United Church of God is a continuation of a movement started in the historic WCG and boldly declare the United Church of God is a movement soley and entirely on Jesus Christ. UCG’s answer to Steve Colbert, Richard Burkard may say, “Isn’t that has always been that way for the UCG, Felix?” C’mon, who are you kidding? It doesn’t take an Einstein to conclude that in practice, no. The UCG has been dedicated to the so-called “18 truths” founded by Herbert W. Armstrong, most which were proven in serious doctrinal error. If UCG is serious basing itself totally on Jesus Christ, it is time to be practical, to be bold and remove the wool over people’s eyes and the time to do it is NOW!
It is time involve ministers and members in the organization. Scrap this insane notion of a division of the clergy and the laity. The UCG should never have hierarchy like the WCG nor a totally congregational governance. A Presbyterian-Congregational model which is a compromise between both extremes is probably the best fit. The UCG member who takes pride in being “intellectually lazy” and takes joy in being spoonfed everything should be considered an annoying dinosaur.
Oh yes, some more radical stuff!!! Reconsider your tithing practices. Oh yes, if you guys believe in the triple tithe—it is time to END IT! Of course like a country, a church needs revenue to survive as an organism. Fine! Why don’t you consider ONE single tithe with three different uses. You think church revenue will decline? If you guys like conservative ideology, it’s time you practice some of their concepts! You believe that tax cuts help? Well, tithe cuts WILL WORK!!! Revenues will go up! Read Restoration Foundation’s magazine article on How God Sees Tithing at restorationfoundation.org. OR if you want REALLY, REALLY RADICAL stuff somebody was nice enough to give excerpts from a book on Mark Tabladillo’s message board, Jesus Loves Fellowship, from the late Ernest Martin on tithing and I will bring it here:
Ernest L. Martin’s website (remember him?) had a booklet out, The Tithing Dilemma.
Excerpts from booklet (part one of three):
The bottom line was “It is a sin (‘missed the mark’) against biblical teaching for preachers, priests, evangelists, rabbis and theologians to receive and spend the tithe God ordained for Israel even if the tithe is used to teach the truth.”
“It is equally a sin for the laity to give the tithe…”
The Israelites were strictly ordered by God to pay the tithe (the tenth)...to one group only…the Levites who (among other things) ministered in the Temple (Nu. 18:21)”
The Levites in turn were to give one tenth of that tithe to the priests (Nu. 18:25-28) who did not tithe at all…With no Temple, the major factor for tithing does not exist…”
Jews Do Not Tithe Today
ELM said he had concerns about tithing 35 years ago. He stated, “I telephoned three rabbis in the Los Angeles area for their explanation. Much to my dismay, all three independently of each other informed me that no religious Jew should tithe today.” One rabbi said, “If any member of my synagogue paid tithe in the scriptural manner, he would be disobeying the law of God—he would be sinning against God.”
The rabbi explained that though he was the chief rabbi of his synagogue, he was not a Levite…he was descended from the tribe of Judah and was therefore not eligible to recieve tithe.
A History of Tithing
The initial illustration is the account of Abraham and Melchizedek. Moses required that the tithe be paid ony on the increase from land and animals. Abraham did not work to produce any of the spoils…spoil does not represent increase. There was no biblical teaching which showed that Abraham was required to give a tenth. For hundred years later Moses legislated what should be done with any spoil (Nu. 31:9, 27-29).
Moses and Tithing
At Mt. Sinai the Old Covenant with the ten commandments and many other laws was given to the Israelites. “Remarkably, there is not one hint of tithing…”
I can think of more suggestions (and if anyone else has more, I would like to hear from you) but I will stop here. The question remains: will the United Church of God look at my proposals? I am under NO illusion that the harsh answer is “DEFINATELY NO!” As a result, the UCG will just be another Armstrongite organization that will be just surviving, not truly succeding in the 2010’s, 20’s, 30’s until it shrivels up and dies sometime this century. It will probably gobble up already dead splinters. On the other hand, UCG’s answer to Steve Colbert, Richard Burkard may remark, “If there is an apocalyptic event in this century, the UCG may grow.” He may be right but if the UCG still wants to be a pretend “Mr.Rogers” Armstrongite cult, it does not deserve to grow and prosper in anyway. If they become an “Armstrongist Refusenik” denomination, they deserve to make their revolutionary mark in Christendom. If they are some Generation Xers (and even Yers) in the United Church of God, when their time is ready to enter the clergy, I can only pray to God that these guys make the intelligent, wise and noble choice!
BBC has a documentary on the Phelps family, of Westboro Baptist Church, “God Hates Fags” notoriety. A fascinating look inside one of the most vilely curious groups in America.
“We’re living in the last of the last days. Times are very short.” Sounds familiar.
Anonymoustoo pointed out in a comment the following from Thiel’s site:
I have received a letter, purportedly from David Pack, that states that Syd Hull suddenly left RCG because Syd Hull stated that he did not “agree with the way the work is being done in RCG”.
David Pack purportedly wrote, “By choosing to leave God’s Work behind for a sliver in which a “work” of almost any kind and any size will ultimately never happen, Mr. Hull has in effect chosen to both retire and leave the Work, with apparently almost no one leaving with him.”
Presuming my source is accurate (and I believe it is), then Syd Hull is becoming experienced in sudden departures. If Syd Hull has chosen to affiliate with En COG, I agree with David Pack’s purported assessment. While the letter states that David Pack was not going to mark Syd Hull, it neglects to mention that Syd Hull thought he could mark me when he joined RCG.
To which rod2 responded,
Well, if the letter was dated April 1st, it could be an April Fools Day where dave will just say it was done to prove that no one can believe anything they read on the internet and thus he could then clamp down on his sheep for ever wanting to visit those sites that expose RCG for what it is ever again.
I thought I’d make it it’s own thread, so, discuss…
The liberal socialism that morphed out of a combine of godless German rationalism, child of the 18th-century period that historians label the Enlightenment, and its clone, godless communism, so long the mentor of our campus intelligentsia, is on the back foot. Religion of an older, traditional form is increasingly returning to fashion.
Huh?! Every other conservative Christian group is saying—has been saying for 40 years—the exact opposite. Just look at David Pack’s catalogs of evils that he posts every now in then in the Real Truth. For that matter, just look in the pages of the Trumpet itself. All we see is how people are turning more and more away from religion and traditional morality. And then this?
This is simply another example of the bizarre world of COG cognitive dissonance—or to use the old-fashioned term, a paradox. The world is increasingly evil—especially Europe—but soon, most of the Western world is going to turn to a form of ultra-conservative, ultra-repressive Christianity.
Anyone else see the stupidity in this line of thinking?
The article continues,
The arm-waving, foot-stomping, stupefyingly hyped-up emotionalism of so much of the evangelical Protestant movement that captivated a generation in Anglo-America seeking to fill the spiritual gap left by the three decades of experiments in social engineering during the 1960s through the ’80s has had its day.
I guess that’s why Benny Hinn and Rod Parsley are barely making a buck.
Further:
A powerful force is rising across the Atlantic, destined to pale all religious competition into relative insignificance. It is centered around a highly intelligent and articulate personality holding an office of increasing political significance. It has a collective budget and assets that make it the richest institution in the world. It has greater command of media than any single one of its competitors. It is the mother of all Christian religions.
Right. Benedict is the media personality. Why, his cold, intellectual personality will spark the imaginations of millions of Protestants. Even Bob Jones IV (or whatever roman numeral they’re on now) will become a pope worshiper.
Still more:
With Pope Benedict having just roundly challenged the mass media to change their largely destructive tune—destructive of basic family values and all that he sees as being fundamental to a good, “Christian and Catholic conception” of society—the Vatican announced March 12 that it will go on the offensive in the media war. The pope is about to build a global television audience to add to the rapidly growing global Web-based audience currently attracted to the Vatican’s well-developed online portal. The Vatican is on the verge of launching not just its own television station, but a global television network! With the call sign h2o, the network is due to be launched by the end of the year, offering a mix of news and original entertainment in seven languages.
A Catholic TBN? Perhaps Benny and Rod are onto something…
Take our word for it or not, the day will soon dawn when that network will air shows of a nature that will leave the public absolutely spellbound! In time to come, the Vatican will produce religious entertainment that will make Hollywood box-office hits on religious themes look more like Disney cartoons by comparison. The visions coming down the tube from Vatican-networked tv will literally hypnotize their global audience with their out-of-this-world, mind-shattering imagery.
Oh, sort of like TBN and The Omega Code? Now that’s quality film making.
The article concludes,
Read Revelation 13:13 in your own Bible. It’s a real show stopper! In time to come when you witness that event, broadcast around the world via globally networked television, remember where you read that it would one day become a reality. It just may mean that by remembering, you may then be able to do something positive and life-changing in light of the impending consequences of those startling events!
Revelation 13.13—how does that go again?
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men
Oh, so it is like the Omega Code, only its disjointed sequel, Meggido, where the anti-Christ actually shoots bolts from his fingers like the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.
That will be a show stopper. I for one can’t wait until the Pope puts together that special effects team.
A couple of weeks ago, there was an interesting post at the Yahoo! livingcog discussion group.
This excerpt is from “cbcfproj”
Are y’all as annoyed as I am by the constant drone we hear from Mr. Meredith about saying things like “we are doing a better work than any other church,” “we are the only ones with the right form of government,” “we are closer to following HWA than anyone else,” we are the best, others are bad, we are great, others are losers, blah, blah, blah.
No wonder LCG hasn’t been exalted by God. We are exalting ourselves.
And its not as if he needs to tell any of us that are in LCG. We already believe that or we wouldn’t be here! All it does is alienate everyone else in the COG community as well as annoy those of us in LCG. Ugh… (Source)
I’d suggest to cbcfproj that Meredith is simply following in the established tradition of all Armstrongist groups. It’s hard to be humble from the starting proposition that you’re the only true Christians in the universe.
The splintering of the WCG drove a wedge between two notions that are really, when separated, are mutually exclusive. The first is that you personally are among the only true Christians in the world. The second is that your church is the sole collection of fellow true Christians. When the WCG was whole and “healthy” (in its spiritually and psychologically unhealthy way), we could all hold those two propositions with equal confidence. Once all the true Christians become scattered, the second proposition cracks under the pressure. Does the “church” become a spiritual organism, in the classic Protestant formulation? If you hold to the principle, do you accept the corollary that the vast majority of the WCG (and probably, therefore, the vast majority of your friends) were not true Christians? And then the unbearable—am I a true Christian? Am I in the right group? Does being in the right group make me a true Christian?
The post also illustrates another phenomenon brought about by the changes—the ability to criticize your leader and yet still hold all his teachings to be true. It’s not quite the same a the phenomenon we’ve all seen here: someone who can criticize HWA to no end and yet still hold to his doctrines. No, this is a shade subtler. It’s something relatively new in COGdom, facilitated in large part by the anonymity the web offers. In my WCG experience, we all put on a happy face about everyone in administration and everything coming from “headquarters.” Here we see someone essentially behaving like a stockholder, criticizing the actions of the CEO.
I can’t see this as anything but a healthy development, and not only because it might eventually lead to the downfall of the LCG. Church members are the ultimate stockholders, a they provide a church with 99% of it income. While such complaining is certainly not the same as having a say in how the church is run (which I doubt will ever happen), it is a step in that general direction. And its a step that members themselves can force the administration to take: the ability to vote with your dollars is another positive outcome of the splintering of the WCG.
At the livingcog message forum, one “jimhmby” posted the following:
I was wondering ,for the sake of discussion, how many of you have given any thought to what might have occured if HWA had gotten his way from the King of Jordan way back when, and the church was given permission to go to Petra?
Do you think HWA had thought perhaps if he made the initiative, God would have honoured the request to bring on the end? Or did HWA think the Beast Power was on the scene and all the things he had said had to be in place had already happened , or was about to? And have you wondered what would have happened if we had all went to Petra and the end did not come then?. (Source)
HWA had no intention of ever fleeing. His old body couldn’t handle any sort of roughing it—and anything short of Steuben crystal and fine china would have been roughing it for him.
This “fleeing” nonsense is the the point of no return, and no COG leader in his right mind will ever make such an irreversible announcement. They have the dream job: respect adulation, money, and most importantly, no heavy lifting.
The only real exception to this rule is Gerald Flurry. But his cult’s “fleeing” would likely only be to his Edmond compound. However, it’s unlikely that he’ll ever do that either. Why? Money. How will the PCG get any money if all it’s suckers faithful tithe payers are huddled in the John Amos Field House, awaiting the Tribulation?
No, fleeing has always been a stick and a carrot (amazing how well Amstrongist cults create sticks that are carrots that are sticks) to extort more and more money from followers.
Buckblog beat me to the punch! He points out Pack’s recent efforts to, as Buck put it, “pick off more LCG members and position himself the flag bearer of all things Armstrong.” Pack has a new article called “A Splinter University—and Accreditation!” (Available here). As you might guess from the title, it’s criticism of LCG’s “university” plans.
Buckblog summarizes it perfectly, then goes for the jugular:
This is simply another transparent attempt in a long line from him to attempt to enrich himself at the expense of others. He doesn’t even pretend to hide it with this appeal. [...]
How about some real numbers on membership? How about some real numbers on income, not just vague generalities, instead of easily manipulated and unverifiable internet stats?
Comments that deal with the personal lives of COG personalities, their jobs, their family members, etc. are not appropriate. Any such comment containing remarks will simply be deleted without regard to the rest of the comment’s content (i.e., whether the rest of it makes a good point or not).
In Part 2 of his Second Commission sermon, Dave Pack gives a stunningly logical—not to mention convincing—reason why the RCG will need a new building. Existing staff, organized into several departments, is growing steadily, but the real reason the RCG will need to build a new building is the possibility of new departments that might develop.
Ears perk up—are we talking about a TV production department? Or at least a video production department?
Unlike in his normal lists, Dave only mentions a couple of items. The reason they’ll be needing a new building any day now is because they might want a landscaping/gardening/maintenance department.
Just let that logic sit in your Monday-morning brain for a while…
Underdog398, who posted the original Sodom/LCG comments, recently commented at the forum about what I’d written here:
I just want to clear up something. The XCG site has taken what I ment [sic] to say way out of context. I am in no way trying to say that LCG is like Sodom or Gomorrah. I only ment [sic] to say that certain men that are no longer with us seemed to have held this problem that LCG is having at bay. Now that they no longer have their finger in the dike it is starting to leak. (Source)
I think it was pretty clear that I was not suggesting that the LCG has become a seething pot of gay lust.
Underdog’s response, though, only strengthens my confidence in my original interpretation: something is rotten in the state of North Carolina. The LCG is having a problem with members running off to this or that COG, and it’s apparently significant enough that Underdog is comparing it to Sodom and Gomorrah—probably the most viscerally negative image in the whole of Scripture.
If only certain men could hold this problem at bay, and Rod Meredith—the Presiding Evangelist—is not one of these men, then the situation in Charlotte is more dire than any of us imagined.
In another message, we read this:
I’ve heard from many in LCG that we will have another split sometime soon. In other words that Charles Bryce is not the only option, just that the other option has not presented itself yet. (Source)
An enlightening posting at the livingcog message board at Yahoo.
I was just thinking that a lot of truly converted strong people have left LCG one way or another. Everyone wonders why God let Mr. Ogwyn die. And others have died or just left. But if you think about it God would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah while lot was there. But once he left then came the fire and brimstone. I believe God is allowing all of this for a reason, what it is I don’t know. But because of all of this I am really praying and studying and fasting more than before, so something good is coming from all of this. I just wonder what will happen when all of Lot’s family is removed from LCG will we see fire and brimstone fall???? (Source)
It seems that even many of those still in the LCG are wondering whether the organization is falling apart. What’s most striking in this is the notion that it might be God’s doing.
What just about made me spew my morning tea was the comparison to Sodom. There’s not much positive in that story at all. Even “righteous” Lot is immoral. Other than the obvious, shudder-inducing imagery about LCG services, such a comment leaves the impression that at least one individual thinks that life in the LCG is about as bad as it can be.
A couple of developments at the RCG—my personal favorite COG flavor.
First, the RCG has posted a map of planned pastoral regions. That is, places Pack hopes to place pastors, who have yet to be hired or even trained.
Second, Pack has posted another sermon about the “Second Commission.” Two minutes into it, he talks about how Reuters mentioned the blogging article in one of its pieces, and then mentions that the Washington Post picked up that story. “We track these things,” he says, mentioning RCG’s tech gurus who can dig all this stuff out. Makes Googling sound impressive.
Later Pack says that 77% of his web is international. That’s very telling…
“Time is short!” the PCG has been shouting ever since its inception. And that’s why investing in a college, faculty housing, a hall of administration, and an auditorium makes perfect sense. But when you’re modeling yourself after Herbert Armstrong, that—and getting on TV—is the Holy Grail.
Which explains why the RCG—despite Pack saying, in sermons, that there’s no way we have more than ten years—is following suit:
A beautiful new 3-story World Headquarters building is leaving the planning stages. Groundbreaking will likely occur late this year. (When ready, we will post dramatic architectural renderings of the building, probably in interactive 3D, with zoom-in and virtual tour capability.) (RCG News page)
There’s also a new sermon posted. I listened to about five minutes of it. What did he talk about the entire time? The growth of the sect’s staff—they’re up to twenty-seven or so now, I think—and surprise! their website. There are several explanations for this, none of them good. We could be kind to him and simply suggest that Pack lacks good planning skills. We could be totally pessimistic about it and say it’s clear proof that Pack doesn’t believe the stuff he’s spewing. But the more logical explanation is probably in the benign middle: Pack is so wrapped up in the ego trip of being God’s Head Man On Earth that cognitive dissonance not only doesn’t affect him—the thrives off it.
Other big news: Pack is going to be the hiring a bunch of new ministerial minions. And they’re going to have an SEP rip-off this summer.
“Brethren, things are really accelerating [toward my goal of recreating as much of the Armstrong empire as possible, with me at the head of the table].”
A little treasure hunt for those interested. An imagined example of how a Packian slight-of-hand might work, with a Thielian touch—no link. Like I said, a treasure hunt. [...] Brethren, all I can say is that we are attracting attention. People the world over commented—mostly in the negative—about our article concerning blogging. And let me just say, the response is more than anyone—anyone unconverted, that is; anyone who lacks both a mind filled with the spirit of God and the prophetic acumen to discern the nature of the times—the, um, response is more than anything most carnal-minded people would have anticipated.
Brethren, we are now in the scopes of major news organizations. Reuters has mentioned our blogging article in one of the own articles. And it’s not exactly positive.
We are in the sights, ladies and gentlemen. We are attracting worldwide attention. We are being noticed.
HWA had no intention of ever fleeing. His old body couldn’t handle any sort of roughing it—and anything short of Steuben crystal and fine china would have been roughing it for him.
Unlike in his normal lists, Dave only mentions a couple of items. The reason they’ll be needing a new building any day now is because they might want a landscaping/gardening/maintenance department.